tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post9070105302190835242..comments2023-09-06T02:20:33.459-07:00Comments on Women On...: On Religion: Pros and ConsLisa :-]http://www.blogger.com/profile/02237889098638895390noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post-26640005144547294052008-08-03T16:19:00.000-07:002008-08-03T16:19:00.000-07:00We don't have much time Lisa. Once again you ...We don't have much time Lisa. Once again you hit a number of nails on the head. I do so enjoy your thinking mind. <br><br>Children need moral compasses and if parents are not able to do that on their own (somewhat obviously not) organized religion will at the least give a good foundation for that twinge or twitch of guilt. <br><br>We all need that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post-11838184085474561922008-08-03T18:33:00.000-07:002008-08-03T18:33:00.000-07:00Any spirituality I've had was based mostly on ...Any spirituality I've had was based mostly on wanting to believe my Mother is in heaven, since her life was so hard & she wanted that so badly. That isn't real spirituality & I am an Atheist. But I have never had a transitory conscience, & indeed I've gotten into some trouble over the years, personally & professionally, for sticking to my inner moral compass when those around me(in some cases most) believed I was over the top. They felt I needed to understand how real life works..ie.. situational ethics. <br><br>Many of the people(though not all)who pointed this helpfully out to me were self-described religious. I often found their ethics & morals related to much more abstract & "higher" theory based tenets of religion, not practical every day right & wrong. They couldn't work on Good Friday & had to fast too, but change a diagnosis code(fraud) to get a payment that would not otherwise be received? That was just "good business." Many obscured the truth while speaking to me by reciting rehearsed religious jargon & then would somewhat affectionately call me the office heathen. I don't believe in God. I also do not have a baseline duplicity about me or any notion that I need to DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR MARY before what is right for my neighbor or mankind. <br><br>Whether someone is spiritual or not, I look, over time, at their willingness to sacrifice. I had to do this to a much greater extent as a child than many because of my Mother's illness & our financial situation. I believe this formed my compassionate & moral leanings more than any religious belief could. I don't see too many parents looking to have their little darlings sacrifice anything of real significance for their grandparents, neighbors or mankind. I find that, not religious background, the issue.<br>~MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post-61148976400008674802008-08-03T20:55:00.001-07:002008-08-03T20:55:00.001-07:00Thought provoking as always, but I must take issue...Thought provoking as always, but I must take issue with the idea that organized religion is required to instill ethics in young people. I am a cheerful agnostic. When I was 5 or 6, I realized that I viewed most of what I was taught in the name of religion (Lutheran) as having about as much truthfulness and reality as Santa, and although I continued to attend church (I was a little kid and had no choice), it all seemed like so much group fantasy to me. I agreed to be confirmed on the condition that I be allowed to leave the church after that, if I so desired. And I did (desire to leave the church, and did leave it, at age 15). All of which is background to my saying that my four children were part of your non-churched group. They are now 32, 29, and 22. I feel confident saying that anyone who's met them would agree that none of them has problems with moral ambiguity. Although we didn't raise them in any church, my ex and I managed to convey to them that there is right and wrong, good and evil in this world, and that each of us must either choose right and good or live with the consequences, a big part of which includes the simple act of having to look yourself in the eye in the morning as you brush your teeth. <br><br>Shoot - 2000 characters or less, indeed! OK, I'm making an additional comment to finish up!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post-13676317914992677792008-08-03T20:55:00.000-07:002008-08-03T20:55:00.000-07:00Part 2 of my verbose comment:Perhaps it helped tha...Part 2 of my verbose comment:<br><br>Perhaps it helped that my ex was a civil rights lawyer, and discussing ethics and moral issues at the dinner table was part and parcel of our life, day in and day out, from the time the kids could hold a fork. But whatever it was, they are now four young adults who are honest, industrious, and for the most part thoughtful. None of them attends church or has any interest in religion, insofar as I know; in fact, one of them purports to be an atheist, but somehow in their busy lives, in addition to going to school, working, and making their way in the world they manage to make time to do volunteer work and be helpful to others. By contrast, I have a good friend who is (and has always been) highly religious and raised all of her children in the church. Nevertheless, 3 of her 4 sons are convicted felons, one of them multiple times. Maybe she and I are the two exceptions that prove the rule, but I think there's more to it than that, and I'll continue to believe that children can be raised to be ethical, industrious, thoughtful human beings even without being churched. <br><br>Judi Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post-91387460792310834082008-08-05T03:33:00.000-07:002008-08-05T03:33:00.000-07:00First, here's the comment I left in your own journ...First, here's the comment I left in your own journal:<br><br>Oh, Lisa:<br><br>Trying to figure out where to begin....<br><br>The first things that come to mind have to do with:<br><br>Faith as encounter with God, not with rules and ethics. Hammurabi and Confucious instituted the foundations of ethical codes -- religion is for something else entirely.<br><br>Religion as God's gift of companionship to us, not our invention or creation.<br><br>The Catholic church as a vast storehouse and living constituency of art, literature, music, imagination.<br><br>The Christian church as the foundational impetus for the civil rights movement, and as the place in which many of us found and continue to find support for our convictions about peace and about the rights of women and gays.<br><br>Your criticisms are largely and painfully valid. But a spiritual quest is a gift from God, not a diving platform constructed of rules and dogma.<br>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6403384531250069062.post-37761851606096466072008-08-05T03:41:00.000-07:002008-08-05T03:41:00.000-07:00Second, what you write reminds me of conversations...Second, what you write reminds me of conversations with my adult children and causes me to agree with you on on thing: the influence of the media. My children tend to see the church as a homophobic, war-mongering, rigid, ossified institution inhabited by the political right. I look at them in disbelief and say, "But you know ME! And you know lots of other people engaged with faith, committed to religious institutions, acting in the public arena out of religious conviction. They clearly see us as a lunatic fringe and believe that the real religious America is something I would argue is a media caricature.<br><br>http://searchthesea.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com